[Seth Keena]

Hi SlowAndSteady,

Thanks for writing in. Firstly, great job improving your AeT and by so many beats!

Did you also do a drift test around the time you found 2mmol/L at 145bpm?

Were you especially fatigued the day of this high-drift walk?

If this high-drift walk was anomalous I would ignore it as just that; an anomaly. It seems that way to me from where I sit. Even with clean, fresh battery chest straps and excellent GPS data I see HR in places it otherwise ‘shouldn’t be’ on not too rare occasions.  Perhaps do another drift test on a treadmill at 115bpm and see what happens.

Drift tests, lactate test and gas exchange tests are all proxies for aerobic threshold and fitness. We have come to prefer the drift test over the other testing means for its excellent specificity and reproducibility. Nose breathing is also a fine method for observation and control. If you’ve not read our most updated article on this subject area : https://evokeendurance.com/our-latest-thinking-on-aerobic-assessment-for-the-mountain-athlete/

-Seth

[Seth Keena]

Hi, AdamasPR

Thanks for writing in. I have used a bike for low-imapct ME (as have many cyclists and impact avoiders) and it works pretty well. Something around 3-5min seated and pushing a big gear with 1min rest, or long and continuous efforts; whatever it is, leg burn  should be felt and ultimately the limited wile cardio system should be working but not be a limiter.

I have not used an elliptical for ME, but if you could get it to resist your movement it could be used as well.

Best,

-Seth Keena

[Seth Keena]

Hi Josh,

Thanks for writing in. Achilles flair-ups suck. It would seem worth a try at least to get ready for this hunt. At the least you assess the week before and decide, and be in a better place for the hunt in 4mo. and the ones after that. You can reuse the last 8weeks of the mountaineering plan as that is a pretty good plan for heavy loads. Of course, your footwear needs to be right for the training and hunting.

Do not sprint uphill, obviously. Consider using a bike for some of the Base/Aerobic hiking volume. May use a stairs or stairmachine rather than steep slope, as this will reduce Achilles stretch. In the final weeks you’ll need to carefully test the Achilles. You can do a lot of training without a lot of Achilles pressure, perhaps giving more time to be OK, but eventually need to be 100% specific with training (ie stretching it).

Hip and core strength are important for maintaining Achilles-friendly gate during endurance events (hunting, etc.) Glute med and transverse abdomen are key areas to focus on.

Get training, test things and go from there.

Best,

-Seth Keena

[Seth Keena]

Hi,  Beemer2012

Thanks for writing in. I have seen some people with AeT much higher than MAF would suggest. Per your qualitative data from running at 160, it would not surprise me if your AeT is close to this. A resting HR of 50 seems low-ish for such potentially high AeT. But, you can do a few things to eliminate some noise and to otherwise consider.

-Try washing the HRM strap and sensor with soap water. Lick the sensor before applying to your chest (saliva is a good conductor.) Maybe change the battery if off. Also, borrow a friend’s HRM and compare.

-Do the test on a treadmill rather than outside. And, do it first thing in the morning without food (caffeine is ok.)

-If you’ve not already, do and AnT test. Likely 60min at sustainable-hard. This gives you a threshold that is going to be at the least your AeT(extremely unlikely unless you’re elite already!) and likely above it.

Lastly, consider that if your AeT is 165bpm and you AnT is 175bpm, for example, you’re not too concerned that AeT is so high and probably pretty hard to sustain; it’s time to polarize base training to upper Z-1/low-Z2 and Z4, without much volume between, generally speaking. This is the reality of an aerobic threshold high enough that muscular effort to sustain it become heavy and degrades intensity workout quality and limits your overall base volume. Basically, running at AeT becomes intensity (and you can do AeT intervals.)

Do the actions above and consider the above as well. Also, consider what you’re training for – do you need to focus on upping  AeT and by how much and in what modality?

Hope this helps,

-Seth Keena

• This reply was modified 6 months ago by Seth Keena.

[Seth Keena]

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for writing in.

Indeed, the ME and sprint combination is fantastic metabolic and signaling training that lays such a robust foundation for the greater volume of training and racing to come.

 

Have a look at page 292 in Training for the UA, and the pages around it, for discussion on amount and type of specific ME in these final weeks. The workouts you mention all are proven specific ME workouts and will compliment the gym ME workouts of past. Be cautious with how much ME you’re planning around what should otherwise be a lot of running/hiking volume. These final 7weeks comprise of 2 or 3weeks of ‘taper’ weeks, so you are looking to emphasize the long runs, which have an ‘incidental’ ME component anyway. Consider planning 1 or maybe 2weeks to have ME running workouts instead of having them in each week.

I recall Scott telling me about Luke Nelson’s unbelievably long ‘gains’ from the gym ME. They were seeing benefits in fatigue resistance for at least as long as he had done the gym ME block, which was 8weeks I believe. Scott will probably chime in with more…

-Seth

• This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by Seth Keena.

[Seth Keena]

Hi Ryan,

Thanks for writing in.  1) HR TSS is not such a good measure for the way we/you are using TP, beyond a simple flat-ish run or cycle. The reasons why, simply put, is HR indicates only a small aspect of effort for strength work, including ME as well as anything involving vertical gain. So, to ‘calibrate’ your TP metrics to produce a meaningful fitness model we suggest some TSS scores for certain workouts,  hence the 150.

2) There are 8sets of sprints, so take the 5min between the 5. On the whole, the workout should feel like more resting than working! To be clear, each set has one, 12second rep.

 

[Seth Keena]

Yes, the procedure is the same. Stairmachines have fewer speeds to choose from relative to treadmills so finding the correct starting speed may be more of a challenge.

[Seth Keena]

Hi MountAire,

Thanks for writing in.

I’ll almost literally throw you a manual on how to train rather than tell you exactly what to do here – Training for the Uphill Athlete. From the sounds of it, you will get a lot of use out of this book now and in the future. It has step-wise instructions on how to plan your volume and intensity for such events, plus will answer more of the inevitable questions.

Other point of advice, that trail race is steep enough and at high enough elevation that you will almost certainly be power hiking most of the uphill portions. I suggest focusing on both running and hiking modality in your training.  Also, take very seriously the descending portion as that is a lot of concentric loading on legs otherwise not so accustomed to it. This is where the muscular endurance protocol (outlined in the book) is key to incorporate.

Happy training!

-Seth

[Seth Keena]

I would not redo it; 6% is close enough to 5% to say 122 is roughly AeT.

[Seth Keena]

Hi Betsy,

Thanks for writing in.

I can offer some imperfect advice and experience, but there is no one solution here.

It is entirely possible that your AeT per the drift test is 117bpm. Your legs clearly have the muscular endurance to handle a lot of volume above this threshold. It’s common to have the legs ‘above’ the cardio like this. I have seen many folks ‘feel’ AeT to be 10-15beats, sometimes more, above their metabolic AeT, proven from both MET and Lactate tests. OK, your metabolic AeT is relatively low. Here’s some ides for the way forward.

Count backwards from this OLY hike.

For all but the final 3weeks: Aim to do nearly 100% of your volume at 117, and do a  lot of volume. Supplement low-/no-impact machines to avoid injury. There will be some slow uphill walking here. Do not add weight to uphill unless it’s for strength workouts. Consider doing some workouts fasted https://evokeendurance.com/fasted-training-a-nuanced-view/ During this period, train specific strength (hiking ME) and let this count as your AnT volume as well.

For the final 3weeks: Do about 50% of your volume at 117bpm (or, if you retest and find a higher AeT, whatever your AeT is) and the remainder of the volume by feel. Keep the ME volume going.

After your trip, go back to the goal of lifting AeT (ie 100% volume at AeT, retesting every ~4weeks, maximal strength workouts, ~5% volume in Z3)  This is the ‘at a certain point’ method; at a certain point the training needs to pivot from addressing aerobic deficiency and point towards the reality of the event.

Again, this is one way to approach this situation. I think you will have good odds of success going this way.

Best of luck and stick with it!

-Seth

[Seth Keena]

You can redo but don’t target pace, target HR. Due to your human-ness, pace and HR are not reliably matched such that you can automatically use a pace. Yet. Possibly after many months of consistent training on the same treadmill, you might be able to bet 95%

If you redo, try 120bpm as the settled HR.

[Seth Keena]

Hi Doug,

Thank you for writing in.

1)Use the HR you settled at  the end of  15min warm-up and before the first 30min of the test, not the average of the first 30min.

2) Not a problem. The total duration HR is above AeT is very small relatively speaking. And, for almost everyone, a little bit of volume above AeT is OK, even if you are very aerobically deficient.

Thanks, and happy training.

-Seth

[Seth Keena]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for writing in.

With 14weeks you have a lot of time and options for your ME work.

I don’t suggest 14weeks of continuous upper body ME workouts. You may try 2weeks of ME, then 2weeks Max, with a rest week between and after. After this, you could consider going into the ME block of training.

Concurrent upper and lower ME is very hard to manage from a fatigue perspective. Often, I suggest 3-4 workouts with both upper and lower ME in a workout in the 2weeks leading up to the objective; these are ‘simulation’ workouts and are tiring. Around them the load is otherwise relatively light. This is a good time to climb lot of 5c granite with a  heavy pack and the intended footwear, as a specific workout idea.

Blocking off upper and lower ME in 1-2week chunks works well. While you’re doing upper ME, for example, you could do a short max lower workout, like half-dose of hill sprints. Same for the lower ME period.

Hope this helps!

-Seth

[Seth Keena]

Using the same cadence (running on the treadmill) as the outdoors test, and conditions (temp, % humidity, altitude) as similar as possible  you should get the same AeT HR value as the outdoors.  That is the ‘magic’ and beauty of these tests.

Indoors; you don’t look at Pa:HR decoupling in the same way as outdoors, mostly because pace does not change and GPS is not used. You might get more than 5% drift depending on how different your AeT is from the HR you started the test with – Drift as a % is the variable you are determining rather than choosing. Remember that with the drift test to accurately tell you AeT you have to go into Z3. Any HR above AeT is in Z3; therefore, if you find 5% drift for example, your HR was in Z3 for some time during the test.

Depending on the ME status of your legs and the pace you choose, the test might feel easy, medium or hard. There is more nuance to what the test ‘should’ feel like than I am writing here, but often the test feels on the harder side of things if you start at AeT and you have been doing proper endurance training for a couple years.

For more on the AeT and AnT testing here is our collection of knowledge and guidance, plus how to adjust zones in TP. https://evokeendurance.com/our-latest-thinking-on-aerobic-assessment-for-the-mountain-athlete/

All the best, Seth

[Seth Keena]

Hi Willem,

Luckily, you don’t need to factor the amsl numbers into training as far as adjusting weekly vert gain. The ME durations/prescriptions  in the plan remain the same irrespective of the height you plan to climb at. You don’t need to apply any factors to vertical gain per workout on account of  the height you plan to do the climbing. Simply put, building a big aerobic base and doing some specific ME is what helps climbers at altitude. Outside of training, stuff like acclimatization tactics and expedition hygiene are very importance as well.

Happy training.

-Seth

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