[WanderSin]

Hey guys,

Like I mention on the title I’m considering purchasing a plan from Evoke Endurance as it seems a better place to do so that UA based on what I’ve read online (I didn’t know Evoke existed until Saturday).

As a short story 2 years ago I trained very consistently for 8 months (mostly running at low heart rate following the MAF formula) but I made little progress when it came to my running pace and when I went in my trip although I saw improvements over previous hikes I had done I was still not in good enough shape to succeed in the peaks we had selected (nothing extraordinary, just a couple of 3900-4000 meter peaks in the alps without much technical difficulties).

This demotivated me and quit the serious training as I felt I was wasting my time by “making up” my own training (Although I was trying to follow the teachings from the book TFTNA).

I feel like giving it another shot as I want to be fit for the mountains since I enjoy everything about them, but it’s hard to enjoy something when you are totally out of shape and I think for my own benefit a program made by someone with knowledge that outlines the intensity and the volume as to not over train is the best way for me as I don’t mind putting in the work if I know it’s going to give results.

With this short (long) story out of the way the questions that I have are:

1. Given that I have around 12 weeks to my first minor objective (end of June, 2 day trip with around 1000 meters of vertical gain each day in the Pyrenees) and then another 4 weeks until the major objective (First 2 weeks of August, couple of 2-3 day climbs to around 4000 meters in the Alps) which program is most suitable for me.

Keeping in mind my current weekly volume for endurance training is around 2 hours only.

2. Can I follow the training plans if I have no access to hills or mountains? I live in a very flat country currently and I wont be able to go to the mountains until the end of June.

Can I do the programs running on the flat? or even using Gym equipment?

I hope you are able to answer this questions.

Regards.

[Maya Seckinger]

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out! Nice work with jumping into 8 months of MAF training, I am sure you developed some aerobic base that will benefit your training currently even if it didn’t feel like it was enough at the time. Training is a complex system and although we strongly emphasize that aerobic base is the most important to train there are other factors (as it sounds like you experienced) that are equally important once you lay the ground work of base training.  Strength, power, speed, mobility, efficiency and recovery are just as important to a well planned training program.

Onto your questions:

1.) I would recommend you purchase our 12 Week Mountaineering Training Plan: https://evokeendurance.com/12-week-mountaineering-training-plan/

It is the exact length of time you need and is based around mountaineering objectives no matter how big or small. The plan description mentions that if you need more help with tailoring the plan to your own needs to schedule a phone consultation with one of our coaches. You can use the plan between your training objectives as well by repeating on of the 4 weeks blocks.

Since you are only training 2hrs a week right now-jumping into the first 8hr week will most likely cause you problems. I would recommend you cut in half all of the aerobic volume. A 1hr hike runs into a 3omin hike ect…I would do this for the first few weeks and as you learn how the training feels and your recovery you can get closer and closer to the programmed durations. I would also recommend moving the aerobic threshold test that is in the first week to the second or third week so you have time to get aquatinted with training again. You can use the MAF formula you have been using as a marker until you get a proper AeT test on the treadmill in.

2.)  The simple answer is YES. You can easily train for the mountains living in a flat area. Many of our athletes live in big cities or flatter country. You will need to get a gym membership and become very well aquatinted with treadmills at a steeper incline and stair-climbers. The plan will go into more detail about the best equipment and how to use it.

I hope this answers your questions-let me know if you have any follow up thoughts!

Maya

 

 

 

[WanderSin]

Hey Maya I seem to be having trouble replying to your response so I add this as a new comment instead.

Your answer was incredibly helpful, I’m going to purchase the 12 week program like you suggested and follow your advice in reducing the volume in the first couple of weeks.

Some questions that comes after this are:

1. After finishing this prep would I do a base period phase again (I was not able to find any programs of yours that are base focused only) and then do a repeat of the 12 week program or would I directly jump into one of the 16-24 week programs without doing a  base period?

2. Once I finish with the prep would my new base volume become the same amount of hours as in the last week of the 12 week program? I never know what volume to use after finishing a prep or doing a taper week. Ie: If last week of a prep before the taper I do 12 hours of training would next prep start in a base of 12h and build up to lets say 20 over the next 12 weeks? This seems a little unmanageable after doing it a couple of times.

Kind regards,

Ander.

[Maya Seckinger]

Hello Ander,

1.) The 12 week program is not just prep-it is a shortened version of the 16 and 24 week plan. It is made for people IF they only have 12 weeks to train for a goal it is not a short cut. The more time you have to train the better. The first 4 weeks of the 12 week plan are the base period of -so if you only want to focus on base training I would repeat this adding in volume as I suggested above until you reach the plan limit. The later parts of the plan will get you stronger and faster for the mountains.

If you want a longer training period I would recommend the 24 week plan. It gives you more ways to extend the plan and gives you a bigger base period. You could do the first 12 weeks of it if you want. BUT…if you want a straightforward plan without having to think too much about adjustments I would still recommend the 12 week plan given your timeline.

2.) None of these plans have 20hr weeks. The last week of the 12 week plan before taper I think is around 12hrs but that is not just base building that adds other specific training as well. If you are new to training I would say it is unusual to train more than 14hrs in a week and even that I would consider to be a pretty big week. Of course it depends on your goals and background with training/sports but 12hrs is probably the biggest weeks you will be seeing.

I hope that helps!

Maya

[WanderSin]

Hey Maya,

I think I wasn’t clear in the second point there.

I wasn’t implying that the program has 20+ hour weeks, let me put an example and see if it’s clearer that way.

Lets say I complete the 24 week program with week 23 (the one before taper) being 12 hours.

When I restart training for the next goal in week 25 or 16 would I start adding volume from 12 hours (volume from week 23) or would I go back to the volume from the first few weeks (lets say 6h).

This example is for when the next goal is far away not in a short few weeks.

It’s mostly asking what is the volume you start building upon after the taper week and the goal climb have been done to start preparing for the next big objective.

The second approach seems like a big reduction in volume while the first one will keep growing until the weeks become 20+ hours weeks.

I don’t know if this makes more sense now.

Regards,

Ander.

[Maya Seckinger]

Yes, you are touching on the question that is apart of the art of training and coaching. There is no perfect answer as it so depends on your energy and how you have been responding to training. If you do all 24weeks of training then go and do your goal–and your next goal is let’s say 16 weeks away what I would recommend is you come back. Take a week super easy as your climb probably took a lot out of you and I would then go back and do the first 8 weeks of the 24 week plan to re-build your base-skip the middle weeks and finish with the last 8 weeks again. I worry less about the hours and more about what your goals are, when they are and what you feel your weakness is. I would not recommend just continuously building volume based off of  the 23rd week of training. You will most likely get a LOT out of doing the plan exactly as written a second time before even thinking about adding more volume.

I hope that helps,

Coach M

[WanderSin]

Great Maya, all my questions answered, thanks a million.

I purchased the 12 week Program as suggested and schedule it to start the 1st of April so the taper week matches the week of my climb.

During the 3 weeks I have before the program starts I will be slowly working up to the volume of the first week and see how the body responds.

Regards,

Ander.

[WanderSin]

Hey Maya,

Sorry to reopen this, I did purchase the 12 week program and I’m starting it as you said by reducing the volume in the first couple of weeks to 50%.

Some of the sessions mention to warm up activity description (like the Zone 2 aerobic with pickups) while others mention worm ups as Notes that are separate to the activity.

Should I treat these 2 warmups the same? And if so is that extra time to add to the activity or it’s part of the activity, ie: If activity is 1h long with 20 minutes warmup is that a total of 1h out of which 20 minutes are warmup or is it 1h 20 minutes of activity of which 20 minutes are warmup and 1 hour of actual work?

Regards,

Ander.

[Maya Seckinger]

Great questions Ander-I always count my warm up as part of the total time the workout. I think the extra note is just a reminder to not just jump into a workout super hard and fast. So if the workout his an hour total and you are cutting volume the workout would be 30min and you would still want to do a 15min warm up into that. But you would only be out 30minutes. Does that make sense?

I hope that helps,

Maya

[WanderSin]

Yeah, makes sense, total time still 30 minutes but I take 15 out of those 30 minutes to slowly work up to the desired HR for the session.

Thanks.

[Maya Seckinger]

Yes, correct!
M

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