Chapter 5: Application
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Once again appreciations for the YouTube videos for this series. As a parent with a young child it’s hard to be able to listen in at the specific time! I have two questions regarding Chapter 5, one with respect to base training and modulation, and one with respect to the zone 3/4 breakdowns of volume.
1) With respect to base training, Scott mentioned the adage of “can you do it again tomorrow?” – and then reinforced with the Mihaly Igloy anecdote of asking an athlete to run 10 miles a day, every day for a month. Scott, can you expand on your views of how this matches up with the tenet of modulation during our base period? Reflecting my own experience and from the sample plans here, but there is modulation built into any given week, and the “long run” would be difficult (but not impossible) to repeat again the next day. And based on my understanding of how these meso and microcycles are programmed, we’re trying to nudge ourselves gradually upward with the supercompensation effects.
This is sort of a long way of saying I feel way different after the long run on a 2nd or 3rd consecutive base building week than I do after aerobic work done during or immediately after a recovery week. If things are going well, after that 2nd or 3rd build week I’m typically pretty much ready for that recovery week and the thought of getting up and doing that long run again the next day feels like it’d be possible but neither sustainable or pleasant. Am I going too hard? Any thoughts or analogies for how we should feel going into a recovery week during the base period?
2) With respect to the breakdown of Zone 3 training, I have been noodling on this since you answered my question about interval prescriptions. I think you covered it pretty well in the Youtube, but I still had a few follow up questions while still acknowledging there won’t be any silver bullet type answers. So maybe these are more thought experiments than anything that tell us exactly what to do.
I read the Seiler study you referenced and wanted to ask your thoughts based on your answer in the other thread. If you took the same cohort of cyclists that Seiler used, and somehow (again, thought experiment here) had 21 weeks to work with (3x the time in the 7 week intervention in the Seiler study) – and you split the cohort into two groups: one group that did into 7 weeks of 4x16min, followed by 7 weeks of 4x8min, followed by 7 weeks of 4x4min protocols. The other group does the opposite order, 7 weeks of 4x4min, followed by 7 weeks of 4x8min, followed by 7 weeks of 4×16 minutes. From what you’re describing of fibers serving as the vacuum cleaner for the faster twitch fibers, I would predict that the first cohort would outperform the second cohort after these 21 weeks on endurance qualities. Would you make the same prediction?
The follow up question I have is – and assuming that I’m understanding the theory and model correctly; this apparently breaks down when theory meets reality. Can you share your thoughts on why this breaks down and any sort of broad brush answer to the Per Astrand quote is elusive to determine? Is it athlete genetics? Training history? the mysteries of the universe? All of the above?
Hey Todd:
Great questions. I hope I can do them justice with my answers.
#1 The Mihaly Igloi story. I think Igloi was simply making the point to my friend that when he had the aerobic work capacity to be able to run 10 miles a day for a month, my friend would be ready to start training with Igloi. The implication is that the hard work needed this big base of support. I do not think he was making any sort of comment about how my friend would arrive at the fitness where he could run 10 miles/day for a month. He was just stating, and could have been using a bit of hyperbole, that my friend would need to have that level of aerobic work capacity before he could be ready to train with Igloi’s guys. I would say that most people would need to use modulation in their training to accomplish the level of aerobic work capacity to be able to run 10 miles every day. Keep in mind that 300 miles/month is not at all outside the normal range for an elite distance runner.
#2 I would make the same prediction. However, 21 weeks of that much intensity would go well beyond a normal duration of a training mesocycle, and I wonder if the result for both would be staleness or even overtraining in some of the subjects.
I use the Astrand quote to illustrate the idea that there is no one way to add high intensity to your training. Coaches tend to favor methods that have worked for them and their athletes historically. This stuff is not like developing an aerobic base for an aerobically deficient person. There is a great deal more nuance when it comes to applying high-intensity training to increase an athlete’s specific endurance. There is a huge variation in methods that have resulted in success with athletes. Here the coaches lead the scientists, and training fads come and go.
Something to keep in mind with the Seiler study: I have not seen very many athletes that can maintain consistent power/speed output doing 4x8min or even 4x4min. Yes, a world cup cross-country skier might, but most amateurs will get slower with each repetition due to the power limitation imposed by local macular fatigue. This is why we almost always do a block of ME training leading into a block of more conventional HIIT.
Referring to the other post where I showed an example week for Tom leading into Western States: An elite athlete like him can run very fast (like 10x1km @ 3min/km pace) while keeping lactate levels low. This is clearly high intensity in terms of speed. But it does not fit into the classic HIIT paradigm where fast equates to high metabolic load and high lactates. Tom’s glycolytic metabolism was contributing a huge percentage of the ATP required for that workout. No one is running that fast for that long on predominately fat. But because his aerobic base is so big, like what Igloi was requiring, the vacuum cleaner is so big that lactate levels remain low.
Moving fast with low lactates should be the goal of ALL endurance athletes. Once you can do that, you have a great deal more flexibility in choosing training methods like interval protocols like you refer from the Sieler study.
In the last book club session, I also quoted Canova talking about the great Ethiopian distance runner Haile Gebreselassie having a 60 story house of fitness. When he goes and fiddles around with different intensity methods, it’s like he is just rearranging the furniture or changing the drapes. Recall my podcast with Kilian after he published his training for the last year. and everyone got excited that this was the NEW best thing? He very wisely published his training volume history for the past decade or more at the beginning of the article. BUT…. how many readers really understood that he was just rearranging the furniture inside his skyscraper of fitness? I doubt many got this. Certainly, several of the podcasters he spoke with didn’t get it at all.
I hope this makes sense. This last point about Tom is the reason I often say that amateurs should not try to copy the training of the elites. If I knew more details about Kilian’s training, I am 100% confident that I could have said the same thing.
Scott
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