Brian Bauer
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do you have access to a treadmill? try running your drift test on one if possible. I don’t see 160-165 as high for a 30yo. my Aet is about 155 when I test at 6,000ft of altitude and I am 54.
ok so yesterday I raced 5hrs at altitude in the heat. I drank about 6 liters, maybe 6.5. I did not get dehydrated and still had running legs at the end. as for electrolytes : at hours 2 and 3, I took 500mg sodium + 2 Sportleg capsules( magnesium + lactate). after a bit my belly got bloated. it was not uncomfortable exactly, but I figured it was too much sodium. I did not take any more capsules during the race. my belly went back to normal. I was also drinking 500ml Tailwind in addition to the 500ml of water every hour. I think next race I will take only 500mg of sodium per hour. I think tailwind might be 350mg, so 850 was too much. as a side note, often in heat race my fingers get puffy. I had no puffiness yesterday, so I was close to get hydration/electrolytes dialed
thanks Jesse. yesterday I did a 3hr mountain run at altitude in moderate heat. I drank 3 litres with no problem. it was not crazy hot so that was probably enough. 1.5L/hour if I am really sweating. 30k race this coming weekend at Jackson Hole. forecast calls for 90 degrees in the valley, a little cooler up high…I raced the same race last year and it feels hot. I should be able to tolerate 1.5L/hour of water no problem( 2 500ml soft flasks in the vest and chug an extra one at each aid station). so regarding sodium for the race, if 500mg is the minimum, is it better to take a little extra sodium? or be conservative ? eg 500mg vs 750mg per hour? thanks
I’ve run the cirque series and the races just over the mountain in Jackson Hole. in particular the 7 mile cirque race in Alta is a “mountain running style” i.e up then down. there are 4 things going on 1) uphill grind: you have nearly 5 miles to ascend 2500ft…aka not that steep. lots of people will be hiking, the fittest will run the whole thing 2) altitude 8500 – 11,000ft. if you are not acclimatized you really need to be careful not to dig an aerobic hole you can’t get out of( but if you’ve raced The Rut, Mammoth, Sky Peaks…its very similar) 3) run back down is steep, you are losing all the elevation in half the distance you climbed…upper section is technical , your quads will take a beating 4) high altitude sun and heat. do not under estimate how hot and dry it is up there…hydrate properly. my suggestion for your race: do a lot of hiking in preparation. practice understanding the line between sustainable running at 10% + gradient and when it makes sense to hike. there is no substitute for vert in your training. if you live near altitude, practice your pacing up high
thanks Scott. I suspect this is why I am being instructed to run not hike( even though it’s a slow pace) and to do the workout on a treadmill where there is no “escape”. I have observed what you are describing : hiking outside on very steep terrain the burn shifts to my quads and its the LME that limits my pace more so than LT or AeT etc. I suspect that these treadmill workouts are going to show real gains in trail races
couple of things:
1. your warmup was N/A in your last test? why? did you skip the warmup? if I skipped the warmup my drift test would be completely invalid. when I do a 60 AeT drift test on a treadmill, I warmup for at least 20 mins. I start off jogging and work up to my target AeT test HR. I want to be at the target HR for at least 5-8 minutes before the 60 min test starts.
eg. my AeT based on drift tests is around 158 . with a proper warmup I can run 60 minutes and be within 2-3 bpm of that 158 target
FYI. – 2 years ago my ADS was so bad I could not run in Z1. I had to run/walk. I had done that to myself with way too much anaerobic training. after getting my Evoke coach, he had me doing high volume Z1 work for a full year. because of that my AeT went from 130 to 158…and it was only then tat I could reliably nail a drift test
have you recently completed a simple drift test when rested? eg a 60 min drift test on a treadmill at a HR that you suspect may be you current AeT? pick a number, if you think your AeT is between 150 and 168, try the drift test at 160.
a mistake that it took me a long time to figure out was: Zone 1 means easy all the time, not easy +segments of hard = an easy Z1 avg. my mistake was constantly thinking “I’ll run the whole way up this hill…a few moments above Z1 doesn’t matter as long as the whole run averages out to Z1″….those moments can stack up and accumulate to ~20% of your Z1 run. It took a segment of periodization for it to click ” hard means hard, easy means easy”…cheating your easy day impacts your hard day. as I am mainly a trail runner, on easy Z1 days I now have no problem walking over the crest of hills to ensure that my HR stays Z1.
a year ago I moved from sea level to the mountains of Montana. it took many months to get my head around the data and number associated with training and racing at altitudes of 7,000 – 14,000ft. it can be very confusing. for starters, and most important, you need to know what your zones “feel like”. what do easy Z1 and AeT feel like at sea level? being in tune with those feelings is critical when you get up high….and that is because your HR will change with altitude. your AeT at sea level might be 130, and your AeT at 10,000ft might be 110…but the feeling should be the same. think of it like this: Economy = Oxygen converted to Velocity. at sea level, you need a certain amount of oxygen to move at a certain pace. At higher altitudes, one of 2 things will happen: 1) you will be moving at a slower pace and therefore requiring less oxygen and your HR will be lower 2) you will be moving at the same pace and working much harder resulting in a higher HR. in general, AeT drift tests are altitude dependent. an AeT test done at sea level does not directly apply to 10,000ft. the best thing that you can do is get super familiar with you feel in your zones. feelings traverse altitudes, numbers do not
I race nordic so my glide technique is pretty good. this past season I waxed my skins regularly. what I found is that some snow simply glides really well, other snow does not. the very cold, dry snow I am used to in Montana just does not glide super well…both is Nordic and skimo racing…
for me, the difference between 9:45 and 10:30 pace in a drift test would be enough to obfuscate any fade, aka drift. eg. if I run 45 mins at 9:45 then slow to 10:30, thats probably enough to lower my HR. I only run my drift tests on a treadmill at a constant pace and incline…so any drift is real, and not effected by an outdoor variable
it is not unusual for me to discover in my data that in the later stages of a 2-3hr race I am moving much faster at the same HR. if I kept the pace the same this would show a declining HR over time. However, my intent is normally to remain at a Racing level of effort which results in greater speed not a reduced HR. in my case this is caused by a lactic shuttle that improves over race duration
it depends on the time of year. during competition periods I mainly do Z1 or Intervals, with no time spent in between. out of competition, Z1 and AeT(Z2) runs become part of my plan.
the key is warmup. for me, that means at least a 15 min warmup including 5 mins of being at my target HR for the test. this is my last drift test done a couple of weeks ago on a treadmill. My preference is a moderate pace done at 2% incline. the graph shows a 15 min warmup and then a 58 min drift test. my target AeT was an avg of 145, my actual avg was 146. I don’t worry if my HR is bouncing around between 145 and 150…which happens naturally based on the song I’m listening to, what I’m thinking about, did I take a sip of water, etc. if my HR gets a little above my target, I focus on relaxing and it drops a few beats. I never adjust my speed or incline during the test. I suspect that my test would have been just as successful at a target of 150, so that will likely be my target for the next test
