[Highpointer46]

Finally decided to take a science-based approach to my training as I have more serious mountaineering plans this summer. I’m 48yrs old and TFTNA really opened my eyes that I have been training for mountaineering/backpacking completely wrong (almost 100% anaerobic) for many years. I purchased the 24-week Expedition Training Plan and did some assessment tests in the first week.  This is what I discovered:

AeT: Treadmill @ 15% grade 1.7mph for 1 Hr.- HR stabilized at ~130bpm and I ended up with 8.5% drift. Estimating 125bpm AeT until I re-do the test at some point. This seems VERY low.

AnT: Did a 20-min anerobic threshold test (after warm-up) on my Peleton bike. Results were Avg HR 181bpm w/ Max HR recorded at 203bpm. This actually seems pretty good for my age and just in general.

Big spread between AeT and AnT so my conclusion is ADS. Bummer but this explains a lot of problems I’ve had on the mountains in the past. I have about 36-weeks until my Ecuador expedition. I’m thinking of two options:

Option #1: Continue the 24-week program and follow up with specific training (but I live in MD so no access to real mountains anyway — not sure specific training will look much different) as per TFTNA.

Option #2: Spend the next 12-weeks focused exclusively on high volume hours of base training (w/ some strength sprinkled in). My AeT is so low that I feel I can do 10-12 hrs/wk because staying below 125bpm doesn’t really strain my muscles at all so I don’t think I’m at risk of over-training. Then, transition into the 24-week program (hopefully) with a stronger aerobic base and then skip the specific training.

Thoughts?

 

[14rcole]

I’m not a coach, but I would lean toward the second option for two reasons:

1. I had ADS going into my first training plan last year.  I spent a couple months doing a variety of aerobic exercise (running/walking, cycling, unweighted box steps) below my initial AeT.  By the time I started the actual training plan (12-week plan in preparation for Mt Shasta) I had shaved over a minute off of my running time and began to feel like the aerobic workouts I was required to do were less of a chore.  It was motivating to see how much better I performed at my AeT test just two months later and that excitement helped fuel me through some of the more difficult weeks to come.

2.You can never have too much aerobic fitness.  Building more aerobic fitness earlier will pay massive dividends when you get to the ME workouts.

[Highpointer46]

@14rcole Thanks for the advice based on your experience. I am very still very confused about the results of my AeT test. I retook the test today at a slightly slower pace/HR and ended up with:

Warmup: N/A
1st Half: 125bpm
2nd Half: 141bpm
% drfit = 12.8%

This is frustrating and I plan to redo the test yet again. My confusion is that the goal is to get ~5% HR drift to determine AeT so, according to this I would conclude that 125bpm is above my actual AeT for this type of exercise. But, this source (https://evokeendurance.com/aerobic-deficiency-syndrome-ads/) says “A very effective low-tech methods of ensuring you are not training at too high an intensity is breathing through your nose or carrying on a conversation while exercising. If you can do those things, you are, almost without a doubt, under your aerobic threshold and getting the maximum training effect for your aerobic metabolic system.”

Yet, throughout the entire AeT treadmill test I was 100% nose breathing and it felt like a very conversational pace. But, I got 12.5% drift. I’m having trouble reconciling these two things.

Jim

 

 

[Brian Bauer]

couple of things:

1. your warmup was N/A in your last test? why? did you skip the warmup? if I skipped the warmup my drift test would be completely invalid.  when I do a 60 AeT drift test on a treadmill, I warmup for at least 20 mins. I start off jogging and work up to my target AeT test HR. I want to be at the target HR for at least 5-8 minutes before the 60 min test starts.

eg. my AeT based on drift tests is around 158 .  with a proper warmup I can run 60 minutes and be within 2-3 bpm of that 158 target

FYI. – 2 years ago my ADS was so bad I could not run in Z1. I had to run/walk.  I had done that to myself with way too much anaerobic training.  after getting my Evoke coach, he had me doing high volume Z1 work for a full year.  because of that my AeT went from 130 to 158…and it was only then tat I could reliably nail a drift test

[Highpointer46]

Brian – I did do a 15-min warmup. Not sure why I put N/A there. I actually repeated the test again this morning at an even slower pace. With a starting HR of 120bpm I got a 4.1% drift. So I gues 120bpm is the top of my Zone 2 which is frustrating because that’s a little under my slowest running HR (125bpm)…so I’m at walk/run. Apparently I climbed Rainier, Hood, and Gannet Peak with really poor aerobic fitness. But, I did have some problems with those mountains.

My main goal was Denali in 18 months with an intermediate climbing trip to Ecuador in 7 months. I’m now wondering if I need to push everything back a year and just address my aerobic base problem or if I can do both at the same time? Obviously I want to be in good enough condition to be safe and successful on those mountains.

Jim

 

[Scott Johnston]

Highpointer:

Biran and 14rcole have given you some good advice from their own experience.  I can only reinforce what they have said.  It does sound like you ADS, which, while disappointing, is the easiest fitness thing to fix.  All it takes is patience and perseverance.   We often see AeT heart rates in the 120s and lower.  Like Brian, you may need to start with run/walks.

It is possible to climb big mountains without this aerobic base- you have proven that- but was it fun or a suffer-fest?  Could you keep that level of work up for another several days, like will be required on Denali?  Can you operate safely day after day? Could you respond to an emergency situation?

Because this intensity is so easy for many who have ADS, you can do a high volume of this kind of training if you have the time.  The single biggest driver of aerobic base development is volume.  I’d also go with option two and monitor AeT progress with a drift test every 6-8 weeks.  When you see your pace improving, do another test at 5bpm higher.

Since you live in a terrain-challenged place, you can benefit from doing your aerobic base training on a steep treadmill and stair master.  FOr the ME work, it is hard to beat the Stairmaster.

I hope this helps.

Scott

 

[Highpointer46]

Scott – It was suffering. The way I describe it to people is that my battery gets drained to 1% in 3-4 hours and then it’s just grinding it out through willpower. But, I have been concerned that I don’t have a safety margin and my mental sharpness is lacking. I’m 3 weeks into base training and putting in about 8 hrs/wk so far and hoping to expand that a bit. I hired one of your coaches to help me with a custom plan. Thanks for the encouragement and the info was super helpful as well.

Jim

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