Scott Johnston
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Bjorn:
Thanks for writing in with your questions. I will assume you are correct that you are FT dominate although I wonder how you determined this. But, here is my experience with FT endurance athletes as compared to a ST athlete:
FT:
- Has high anaerobic capacity and is able to produce high latate levels. This is the easiest way to see if FT or ST.
- Needs the easy days to be easier
- Must be careful to control intensity and not to train too fast on aerobic base training days. Be sure you can recover copletely from aerobic base sesisons within 24 hours
- Recruits FT fibers at lower intensities
So, I find thatit can be dangerous for a FT athlete to train with a ST athlete even if their race results are the same. The FT athlete will be at higher lacates and recovery between sessions will need to be longer.
With your injury history and hiatus from training I propose that you montior your recovery carefully to ensure your are recovering well and not app;lying another training stress when you are not recovered. This wold be the same rule I would use for a ST athlete but they would probably be able to handle a somehat higher volume of aerobic work,
Before starting an ME program I recommend you regain your lost strength,. Hill sprints during this prolonged base period you need are good for this but no longer than 10 sec and a full 3 mion easy walking.standing recovery between. Stop when you can no longer reach the high mark from previous reps.
It is easier to make a FT athlete into a good endurance athlete than it is to turn a ST athlete into a sprinter. You can can do this but it takes patience and a few years. I’ve done it with several athletes.
I hope this helps,
Scott
Matze:
I undertsand your question but I would like to correct one thing before we move on to answering what you asked about.
Unless your interest is in losing fat the main goal of aerobic base training is to be able to move faster at your aerobic threshold. I think most athoetes will have improved performance as their primary goal and the increased fat metabolism will be a follow on effect.
FATmax does not always coorespond to AeT. In my experience those two events tend to coinside in very well endurance trained athletes.
If these two points are far apart and your goal is to improve your fat useage you will need to train close to your FATmax. In that same athlete if on the otherhand you want to improve your speed at AeT you will need to train closer to AeT speed/HR.
I hope this helps.
ScottRadu has pretty much nailed it.
It is related to the “economy” or the energy cost of locomotion. I happen to know that Brian is taking up Nordic skiing after a 30+ year hiatus. Nordic skiing is one of, if not the most, technically demanding endurance sports. His current level of technical proficiency, especially in the skating technique is low enough that it is costing him significantly more energy to ski than it is to run.
Improving/refining technique in skiing is something that takes a lot of time and PERFECT practice. If you practice poor technique, all you do is get really good at doing it wrong. With only a handful of days on snow so far, this technique deficiency is totally understandable.
Major, like double-digit, gains in performance can be had by improving skiing or running economy. Whereas adding either more volume or more intensity can actually have the opposite effect on performance if you have poor technique.
Say you add high-intensity intervals to your training in hopes of increasing your endurance performance. But your technique gets worse when doing those intervals. You are perfecting poor technique. You are engraining inefficient movement patterns into the motor nervous system that can be hard to unlearn.
Scott
I think the real takeaway from both Jack and I is that there are different ways to achieve good results as long as you progress the load and monitor your response. If you’re not seeing progress then you can take action…..probably rest more.
Scott
It is my experience that the more you can control and monitor the intensity and measure the progress of high-intensity workouts the better will be your results. There is a reason professional road and track runners do their intervals on a track or at least on a course where they can control the pace. Same for swimmers and cyclists. The pace/power they use is determined as a percentage of a recent time trial, race, or test. This is not so common with mountain runners. I and one of our coaches, Jack Kuenzle, have used it to very good effect. Jack credits this type of training for much of the success of his 10-month-long string of FKTs. Tom Evans credits it with his last season’s success. Before that my skiers won multiple national championships and very strong World Cup results using a variation of this type of training.
You will give up a little specificity by being on a machine but the control and measurable progress more than outweigh that disadvantage in my experience. I have not done this on a stair master but will ask Jack to comment and see if he will divulge some of his methods.
On an incline trainer, you need first to establish “race pace”. With Tom I used a vertical km time trial at 25% grade. Others can use something analogous for their test. For XC skiers we used a 1600m roller ski time trial on a track. That way you know an all-out pace you can just barely manage. The training protocol involves building endurance at this pace by improving the aerobic support in the muscle fibers needed just below this pace. You’re increasing the size of the vacuum or aerobic capacity in those fibers. The protocol I have used with World Class long-distance mountain runners and World Cup Cross Country skiers is as follows: Use 95% and 90% of TT pace.
Warm up 10min flat run.
@10% 1200m @ 75% VK chk lactate
+ @15% 1200m 100% VK chk lactateWorkout @25%.
Using 95% and 90% of your VK avg pace.
5x 3min@90%+1min@95% continuous rest
2min break to check lactate
5x 3min@90% + 1min @95% continuous
2min break to check lactate.
10min cool down jog and hike at 5%
TOTAL OF 10 X 4 MINUTES WITH ONLY 1-2 MIN BREAKS TO CHECK LACTATE
Done 1 x every 7-10 days
Each workout. Very important: IF FEELING STRONG, REST, RECOVERED (If you don’t feel like this don’t do the workout. Take a couple more easy days.
To progress this series: In each workout you reduce the 90% time by 15 seconds and increase the 95% time by 15 seconds. By the end of the progression, you will be doing 1 minute at 90% and 3 minutes at 95%. Part way through Tom felt the paces were getting too easy and we increased them to 97% and 92%. You can also do another VK TT when you feel the training effect kicking in. Then recalculate the percentages. I’ve done it both ways.
This is a structured progressive training program that most mountain athletes are not accustomed to and some have pushed back against doing this. I have never in over 12 years of using this approach with a broad swath of elite athletes had this not provide outstanding results.
CAVEATE> This is for a very well-trained athlete with a high aerobic threshold. A time trial done on the same course at one’s aerobic threshold should give a time of about 90% of the race pace. If not you need more base training. Disregard this a warning at your peril.
Earlier in the base period, you will have done a block of Hill Sprints Start with very short (10-12 seconds maximum effort to teach your brain to recruit the most forceful fibers done on a very steep hill. between 6-10 reps with 3 minutes recovery. 1x/week We continue the hill sprints into this progression period. With Tom most weeks also included one steady state tempo effort or progressive distance run where the pace intcreases throughout the run.
I know this is a lot but you asked…….Is this as simple as going to a hill and running up it hard for a few minutes and repeating it several times? Not by a long stretch. But, have that big aerobic base before you start this.
I hope this helps the curious and high-level athletes.
Scott
Daniel:
The stair machine ME workouts work best with mountaineers. The tempo is too slow for runners. And you need the impact training that comes from the jumping exercises and the eccentric contractions in the gym ME progression I have laid out in the article by the same name on this site. I would suggest implementing that protocol. I think you will be very surprised by the fatigue resistance this build in your legs. I have used this to very good effect with hundreds of runners including the 3rd place finisher at UTMB this year.
Scott
Josh:
Thanks for writing in with yor question.
First some general theory:
Sprint training whether hill sprints or flat will develop power. As you probably know power=work/time. Work=force x distance. When it comes to muscles, Force = Strength. If you follow this logic you can see that Power is a function of Strength. When it comes to running faster it is far less importnat to be strong than it is to be powerful. That’s why the strongest athletes like power lifters are not the fastest. Strength training may improve your power if you are especially weak. If you can’t DL your body weight then you can probably become more poweful just be increasing strength. At some point in the development of strength the gains to power diminish and you will need to shift to power training. When this occurs is anyones guess. Many thousandfs of words have been written about the benefits of general strength training to improving sport performance. I’ll save you some trouble by telling you that no one really knows the answer. For more advanced runners I work with I lean much more on power training for performance improvement and use general strength for durability and injury prevention.
Now to answer your question:
You can do the max strength and sprints with tire on the same day. Do the power work first and then the max. Normally I would put these two workouts on different days separated by at least 72 hours. Normal periodization would be for 8 weeks of max strength then 8 weeks of power/speed. In your case with ultras max or pure speed is less important. The gains from the sprint training come in the form of running economy (increased stride length) at lower speeds. Add up a 2cm average increased stride length over several hundred thousdands os trides taken in an ultra and you can see where this pays off big time.
I hope this helps.
ScottBox steps can be used for aerobic base training. BUT….can you do the same workout day after day after day? Possibly but unlikely. Most likely the local muscular fatigue in your legs will limit your ability to do much volume of this. If that’s the case then this will be ab ME workout for you and not an Aerobic base building workout.
I hope this helps.
Scott
Transitioning from dryland training, even roller skiing to snow training takes time. Skiing is harder than dryland. Don’t push it for the first couple of weeks.
Scott
Here is the setup I have in my gym. Ski Erg mounted to the wall in front of the used Nordic Track Incline Trainer I got on eBay. I and some athletes have been using this HARD for 10 years. Works great.
An athlete I coach, Tom Evans was involved in testing the Addidas new trail shoe with a carbon plate. In the lab it was 12% more economical. That’s 12% less oxygen required for the same pace as a non-carbon shoe. Another athlete I coach, Luke Nelson got a pair of C=carbon plate shoes and sees 40 sec/mile improvement on his commute to work.
Technology does make a difference. Noone races on wooden skis any longer. When fiberglass racing XC skis came around in the late 70s it revolutionized the sport. The technique changes to account for the improved economy.
$275 is crazy money but so are $3000 carbon skimo boots and $15k carbon bikes.
Scott
Keith:
Yes, I’ve done that with a number of athletes I’ve coached. I’ve even had a couple of very strong athletes who would do one of each type in each week. That’s a bit risky and you need to monitor recovery closely.
Scott
Brian:
Sounds like you better hike over to my house. I know is a long way but I suspect you can make the 1km trek without needing to bring a GU with you. I’ll give you a rundown and some wax. Like a ski wax clinic. I probably have more wax than you and I will ever need in our lifetime. You can pick up that ex-USST racing suit when you do. My stuff is still in storage but I’ll have it all moved over to the house in a week or so.
Scott
Alex;
You’re right that cycling doesn’t have the weight-bearing specificity of running. But it does allow you to accumulate much time more in the aerobic base training zone without the beating running imposes. It would be unwise, and Jesse certainly knows this well, to ramp up your running mileage very quickly after this layoff. So adding biking especially is a good way to add volume. My old Norwegian ski coach told us back in the day that a 1hour run= 3hours on the bike. That was depressing to hear but it correlates well with what the world’s best road runners and road cyclists do. 10 hours of running is a big week for a marathoner and 30 hours is a big week for a cyclist.
I coach a pro runner, Tom Evans and he often rides 3-6 hours/week on top of running. He loves riding and is good at it. So he gets some more aerobic base volume while letting his legs recover a bit between runs.
As for swimming: I recommend that for recovery sessions as it is just too far away from running specificity to carry over much training-wise. But, IMHO it is the BEAT recovery tool for really beat-up legs.
I hope this helps.
Scott
